Andrei El’chaninov: increasing the satellite constellation is the number one priority
Andrei El’chaninov, First Deputy General Director of the Roskosmos State Corporation, told Interfax about the prospects for serial production of satellites, financial estimates for the creation of a promising Russian Orbital Station (ROS), Российской орбитальной станции (РОС), international cooperation and the problem of space debris.
Interfax: Andrei Fedorovich, how does Roskosmos feel in the current conditions: without a large number of launches in the interests of foreign customers and an increase in load against the background of the NWO?
El’chaninov: Roskosmos feels stable. Despite external pressure, we find new partners. The unshakable execution of contracts is the main direction of our current activity. We have documented and communicated to everyone that a violation of the obligations of the state contract for the heads of enterprises in the industry for more than one month is a punishment, in the future – dismissal.
Interfax: A large amount of losses persist?
El’chaninov: We are forecasting a large amount of losses. As the CEO said, by the end of 2022, the situation is tentatively estimated at around 50 billion rubles. This is not only due to the impact of the sanctions, it is also the sluggishness of individual enterprises in terms of their obligations. We hope we will get out of this difficult situation, which has been exacerbated by the refusal of international cooperation. An additional source of loss compensation for us is now practically blocked. We are building up internal reserves and looking for new partners in international markets.
Interfax: 50 billion rubles of losses at the end of 2022 – is this a confirmed amount?
El’chaninov: This is not a confirmed amount, since, based on the tax reporting policy, the formation of budget estimates and the conduct of audit processes, the work to obtain a specific figure, verified to the nearest penny, takes about 4-5 months of the next year. That is, we will already know the specific figure in the second quarter of 2023, but we already understand the volume of the disaster.
Interfax: Did you have to close any work and promising projects in order to save money?
El’chaninov: We analyze current works and rethink those works that are lame.
The new leadership of Roskosmos forbade at the physical level even thinking about applying to the government of the Russian Federation with a proposal to amend the terms of the concluded state contracts, which had previously been put on stream.
Interfax: If the company realizes that it does not have time to fulfill the contract?
El’chaninov: So this is the wrong organization of work. Therefore, it is necessary to make changes in the organization of work, as well as part with those people who are not able to organize this work.
Interfax: What about in case of force majeure?
El’chaninov: Yes, there are force majeure circumstances – Covid events, sanctions, but this should not be massive. This is a point solution to individual problematic issues.
Interfax: How is it planned to solve the problem with the debts of the Khrunichev Center?
El’chaninov: We work with the Khrunichev Center on an ongoing basis – every week we spend some time to delve into the current situation, because it changes based on the needs of the Ministry of Defense in the products that the enterprise produces. It is specified and corrected, but the financial situation of the Center remains difficult. The main part of the load is debts to banks for servicing previously attracted loans.
The volume of debt on loans from the Khrunichev Center is in the region of 9.5 billion rubles. The terms of its repayment depend on our interaction with banks, while we find a common language with them.
We hope that the situation with debts will be leveled after the commissioning of the National Space Center – not earlier than 2025. That is, we will pay off the debts of the Center on the horizon of 2026–2029, if we look at things realistically.
Interfax: How is the construction of the National Space Center going?
El’chaninov: The construction of the National Space Center is proceeding in strict accordance with the schedule and is under constant control by the Moscow government and Roskosmos. The installation of engineering structures of the low-rise part of the building has been completed, and facade glazing is underway. The construction of the dominant of the complex is at the final stage – 42 of the 47 floors have been cast in concrete. The completion date for the construction work is scheduled for 2024, and the relocation of the state corporation and its organizations is scheduled for 2025.
Interfax: In December 2022-February 2023, the ISS experienced a coolant leak in two spacecraft – the manned Soyuz MS-22 and the Progress cargo ship. Roskosmos called the preliminary cause of the accident “external influence,” but at the same time announced the need to check the entire technological chain of manufacturing spacecraft. Have any conclusions been drawn regarding the efficiency of the prime contractor, RKK Energiya?
El’chaninov: In the situation with the Soyuz MS-22 manned spacecraft, we still managed, with the help of our colleagues on the ISS, to look in more detail at the area of coolant leakage. We unequivocally interpreted the results as an external influence of a foreign body, which led to a violation of the ship’s contour.
The second episode is akin to two shells hitting the same crater, so we carried out a much larger set of events. A special commission conducted a full production and technological audit of the creation of this subsystem both on a manned ship and on a cargo ship. Based on the results of this audit, we were once again convinced that all technologies were observed and are observed now. The results of the work of the commission allowed us to conclude that the cause of the depressurization of the outer contour of the cargo ship was also an external influence. Our ISS partners once again helped us in this work, for which we are very grateful.
In addition, the ships preparing for launch were additionally checked. No errors found.
Interfax: Is there any financial loss due to this whole situation and the shift in the return of the crew?
El’chaninov: We had a manned spacecraft, which was ordered and paid for by the state and was intended for a specific purpose. We simply made changes to the program for the stay of specific astronauts in orbit. This did not affect the implementation of the scientific program. All experiments included in the program will be carried out.
Interfax: What kind of external influence broke through the thermal control systems of ships? Was it space debris?
El’chaninov: What exactly hit there, no one knows. Our version is a meteoroid. It certainly wasn’t space junk. There is a separate area of work on the approach of the station to space debris, in which we are closely cooperating with the Americans. And if it was debris, we would track it and perform another ISS avoidance maneuver.
Interfax: Nevertheless, the problem of space debris in near-Earth orbit has been discussed for more than a year. How at risk is the Russian satellite constellation?
El’chaninov: The problem is becoming global. Both a large amount of debris and spacecraft appear in an orbit of 300-400 km, so it is necessary to develop regulatory standards. This is a threat to guaranteed access to space, including the launch and normal operation of spacecraft in orbit. If the “rules of traffic in space” at the international level are adopted without taking into account the interests of Russia, this will give rise to another threat associated with economic and reputational losses.
Interfax: And how to answer all this?
El’chaninov: Parrying these threats will become one of the tasks of ensuring national security. Therefore, Roskosmos, together with other interested departments, continues to defend the position of our country in the international arena and at the same time builds up the capabilities of an automated warning system for dangerous situations in near-Earth space.
The Americans are making their own system, we are not far behind them either – this year work will begin on creating the next generation system – the “Milky Way,”/«Млечный путь». This system will track all celestial bodies and calculate the possibility of a collision of space debris with satellites. The key properties of this system, along with advanced monitoring tools, should be openness, accessibility and demand at the international level. Openness – the ability to connect to the system monitoring facilities of friendly states and the ability of the system to participate in joint projects with them in the field of ensuring the safety of activities in space. Availability – the possibility of obtaining products and services by a wide range of Russian and foreign consumers. Demand – satisfaction of consumer demand for the need to obtain products and services for guaranteed access to space and control over compliance with the rules for conducting activities in it.
Interfax: Will this system be used in the interests of manned cosmonautics? For example, to determine possible collisions of space debris with orbital stations.
El’chaninov: If we talk about the ISS, then in 2022 she was forced to perform five evasive maneuvers. The forecast of dangerous rapprochements is determined by the American side, for the Russian Orbital Station we will deal with this ourselves.
Interfax: Is there a system that monitors attempts to influence Russian satellites from the Earth?
El’chaninov: The impact can be different, so there is no separate system. There is telemetry from each working satellite, and by the functioning of its systems it can be concluded whether it is working or not. There is also an observation of all cosmic bodies in the optical range, which allows us to characterize the mechanical impact on the satellites. All this can be integrated into a single system, which will make it possible to issue unambiguous conclusions from the external impact on spacecraft.
Interfax: Were these systems created on your own initiative or under a government contract?
El’chaninov: And so, and so it is.
Interfax: The head of Roskosmos, Yuri Borisov, has repeatedly stated the need to switch to conveyor production of satellites. How is work progressing in this direction?
El’chaninov: Previously, Roskosmos was not engaged in mass production of spacecraft. The first signs will be ISS Reshetnev and NPO Lavochkin. Now we are setting up all technical and technological processes for mass production. We involve companies that have achieved significant success in this area, primarily from the automotive and aircraft industries. We adopt best practices from them and implement this approach.
Interfax: How does Roskosmos treat constant criticism that the country does not have enough satellites?
El’chaninov: Only one issue is constantly criticized: the failure of Roskosmos organizations to fulfill their obligations, and rightly so. But building up a satellite constellation is a challenge that needs to be answered. Solve the issue both by attracting federal funds and by private investment. Private business has become the number one priority of the current management of the state corporation. Based on this, we have rethought the launch program and regard the deviation from this program as a violation of obligations with the corresponding conclusions.
Interfax: How are the negotiations with private business on the formation of a satellite constellation going?
El’chaninov: We are in active dialogue with representatives of private business, which wanted to engage in this activity. We find common ground, legal support for this issue. We have prepared two draft laws on the commercialization of Roskosmos’ activities in outer space, we will amend the law on space activities, which allows private traders to raise funds and work in outer space, to meet the needs of the market. This work is coordinated at the government site by First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Removich Belousov. At this stage, a roadmap has been formed and together, under the leadership of the government, we are thinking about sources of financing for the work.
Interfax: What other steps have been taken to increase the Russian satellite constellation?
El’chaninov: We are considering all possible options for building up the satellite constellation. We once again analyzed all the leading contracts, all the obligations assumed. We place special emphasis on the implementation of the Sphere program, within the framework of which a multi-satellite constellation is being created at the expense of public funds.
As part of this program, we are now working on the possibility of shifting “to the left” in terms of this work and we hope that this year the first satellite from the Marathon constellation will be launched a year ahead of schedule.
In addition, we are actively working with potential consumers of these services – the leadership of regions and federal ministries, in whose interests it is possible to build satellites. We must form a unified program and ensure the qualitative and quantitative growth of the group in the short term, and not in some distant future.
Building up the satellite constellation is the number one priority in today’s activities of Roskosmos. First of all, spacecraft that solve the problems of remote sensing of the Earth and communications.
Interfax: Are private traders also involved in this work?
El’chaninov: Private traders occupy their niche. For example, the same satellites – some are trying to repeat the path traveled by OneWeb or Elon Musk with SpaceX. In no case do we interfere with their work; on the contrary, we try to find compromises.
The state should understand what the money is spent on, because it is a lot of money. It is necessary to calculate the financial model so that this activity is not unprofitable and is in demand not only by the state, but primarily by citizens.
As you know, OneWeb went bankrupt. Our financial capabilities differ from those of other partners, so we must calculate three times and measure seven times before taking these steps.
The general leitmotif of the current activities of Roskosmos is openness to any initiatives. It is necessary to completely destroy the myth that Roskosmos enterprises are closed to the outside world. It is impossible to be closed in the current reality. It is necessary to be receptive to the market and to initiatives not only within the industry, but also external ones. Therefore, we are actively working with both youth and big business.
Interfax: You mentioned OneWeb, they recently announced that they had abandoned attempts to return their 36 satellites from Baikonur.
El’chaninov: The story with satellites at Baikonur and the situation with Soyuz rockets at the Kourou cosmodrome will go to the courts.
Interfax: And what about the Baiterek project at Baikonur?
El’chaninov: The Baiterek project exists, it works. There are small roughnesses in the implementation, like any large-scale complex project, Roskosmos, together with Kazakh partners, overcomes them. We do not intend to withdraw from the project.
Interfax: It was reported that Roskosmos is considering the possibility of supplying India with RD-191 rocket engines from 2024 to 2029. Has the contract been signed?
El’chaninov: Now we are discussing the details, characteristics and scope of deliveries. We hope to enter into a contract in the near future. We do not interrupt cooperation with anyone, we are open to all foreign customers.
Interfax: What other projects are foreign customers interested in?
El’chaninov: We are actively working in the satellite direction – a number of states are very interested, I cannot disclose details until contracts are signed.
Interfax: And with China?
El’chaninov: We have mutual offers to each other. We are actively working on the lunar program, we are working on the missions that the Russian Federation is leading.
Interfax: In what currency are settlements with foreign customers made?
El’chaninov: Settlements in US dollars, the state corporation has reduced to a minimum. There are problems with the calculations, they concern both the payment for the work performed by Roskosmos and the transfers of Roskosmos to our foreign partners. There are problems, we overcome them. This does not stop work at Roskosmos and is not an insurmountable obstacle.
Interfax: How do you evaluate the joint work with NASA now?
El’chaninov: Space remains one of the few niches where joint work with representatives of various states does not stop, despite the political situation. The position of the management of the state corporation: space is out of politics.
Any war ends sooner or later at the negotiating table. And we are destined to interstate cooperation in terms of moving to other worlds and planets. Space is a unifying thing.
As for NASA, we have established working contact with the Americans, specialists communicate on a daily basis, the cross-flight program is working, we do not intend to stop and are ready to expand this cooperation.
Interfax: Did the Americans approve the candidacies of the Belarusian cosmonauts, one of whom will go to the ISS?
El’chaninov: Officially, they should soon confirm, in the working order they said that they did not mind. Papers should come.
Interfax: It was reported that by April 12, the appearance of a promising Russian orbital station, Российской орбитальной станции, would be presented. Is the project ready?
El’chaninov: On April 12, the general director plans to inform the president about the progress of work, but not about the final appearance of the station. We have carried out work to determine the orbit on which the ROS will be located. Now Rocket and Space Corporation Energiya is carrying out the preliminary design stage, which will determine the future appearance of the station. Completion of the draft design is scheduled for the end of the year.
ROS will replace the ISS. At the level of Roskosmos, based on the results of the work of the commission, a decision was made on the possible operation of the Russian segment of the ISS until 2028 inclusive. Yes, it will require investments and certain work.
Interfax: What tasks will the ROS solve in orbit?
El’chaninov: The stage of the preliminary design itself implies that after it and at this stage there is a high probability of making changes to the appearance of the station and its refinement, based on prevailing views.
When designing ROS, we are also open. We have expanded the range of organizations to the maximum to determine the station’s target tasks. All leading educational institutions, all scientific organizations that deal with space issues were invited so that they could express their opinion on what tasks the ROS is being built for.
Interfax: It was reported that the ROS will not be permanently inhabited and will be able to work in automatic mode. Will the station subsequently be able to operate without astronauts?
El’chaninov: By and large, no one argues that in the near future in low Earth orbit there will be no tasks that cannot be solved automatically without human participation. However, the departure of a person from orbit is tantamount to a loss of competencies exponentially: one year of absence is equal to five years behind in manned cosmonautics.
Therefore, in no case will Russian cosmonauts leave orbit, and we are sure that there will always be interesting and demanded work in space for them.
Interfax: How much is the required amount of financing for the construction of the ROS?
El’chaninov: Based on the results of preliminary design, we will understand, but it will definitely be hundreds of billions of rubles. According to our estimates, this is from 300 to 600 billion rubles. The money will be divided according to the stages of construction. This is the sum with all ships and infrastructure.
We estimate the first stage of construction at 350 billion rubles, which will make it possible to create a station where crews on spacecraft will fly and work. We estimate the creation of the full image of ROS at more than 600 billion rubles. But this is not the final number.
Yes, the figure is significant, we are as scrupulous as possible with all technical solutions, understanding the full degree of financial burden on the country’s economy.
Interfax: How will the creation of the station go through the stages?
El’chaninov: The first stage involves the creation of the core of the station – this is a scientific and energy module, научно-энергетический модуль, nodal and gateway modules, узловой и шлюзовой модули, a base unit, базовый блок, and at the second stage – bringing the station to the design configuration by docking the target modules.
We see the benefit for the socio-economic development of the country as the primary task of the station. The ROS will be equipped with targeted equipment for carrying out work in the interests of the national economy, fundamental and applied science.
Each of the target modules created at the second stage will receive its own separate functional purpose, we will coordinate the technical specifications for them with the interested departments.
Interfax: How are things going at the Vostochnii cosmodrome?
El’chaninov: To ensure the launch of the Angara launch vehicles, the construction of the facilities of the second stage of the Vostochnii cosmodrome with the parallel installation of technological equipment is being completed.
Roskosmos has created an operational-technical group to coordinate and control the implementation of work on the creation of a heavy-class space rocket complex at the cosmodrome, which is considering issues of linking construction, installation and testing work.
Interfax: There have been reports of labor shortages at the facility. Are there enough builders at the spaceport now?
El’chaninov: The number of workers involved in the construction corresponds to the construction organization project.
Interfax: When will the first Angara rocket arrive at the cosmodrome for flight tests on Vostochnii?
El’chaninov: In May 2023, it is planned to deliver to the Vostochnii Cosmodrome a full-size electric refueling mock-up of the Angara heavy launch vehicle for comprehensive testing of units and systems of the technical and launch complexes. The production of the Angara-A5 rocket, intended for flight tests, is nearing completion. The expected delivery date for the Angara-A5 to the Vostochnii Cosmodrome is September 2023.
All this makes it possible to ensure readiness for the start of flight tests of the heavy-class space rocket complex in 2023.
Interfax: Are you satisfied with the number of launches from Vostochnii? Does the spaceport fully fulfill its function?
El’chaninov: The cosmodrome has not yet been put into operation in full. There is a backlog on certain objects. Of the two phases of construction, we have not yet completed the first. But we consider the Vostochnii cosmodrome as the main platform for launches in the future.
Interfax: It was reported that the timing of flight tests of a promising new generation transport ship (PTK NP), транспортного корабля нового поколения (ПТК НП), depends on the start of financing the construction of infrastructure for it at the Vostochnii cosmodrome. Is it clear when these funds will be allocated? When does the state corporation plan to start flight tests of the PTK NP?
El’chaninov: Flight tests of the PTK were originally planned to be carried out with docking to the International Space Station. Now, taking into account the fact that we are simultaneously working on the creation of the PTK and the new orbital station, it seems logical to link their systems and synchronize the flight tests of the PTK with the deployment of the ROS.
Roskosmos is developing a federal project to create a ROS space complex, and funds for creating ground infrastructure for launching modules and manned spacecraft from the Vostochnii cosmodrome will be included in this project.
We are not abandoning the project. Problems arose due to the fact that the programs are not interconnected. Grabbed for a manned spacecraft, not thinking about other components of the flight to the moon. As a result, the target program decomposed into a bunch of separate tasks. But the project will be in demand. The backlog will be used, but the appearance will be different.
Interfax: Is the issue of creating a reduced copy of the PTK NP for flights to the promising Russian orbital station being considered?
El’chaninov: As for the creation of a new transport manned spacecraft for flights to low orbits, RKK Energiya’s work in this area is planned as part of the Federal Space Program for 2026-2036. The backlog obtained during the creation of the PTK is really planned to be used as much as possible, while the task of creating its “reduced copy” is not worth it. The new light spacecraft will be developed on the principles of efficiency and serialization, and therefore not all systems of the lunar spacecraft will be in demand in the new R&D.
Interfax: How much does Russia spend per year to maintain the Russian segment of the ISS?
El’chaninov: On board the station, our cosmonauts do a huge amount of scientific, applied and research work under the auspices of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and their work schedule is much more intense than that of most people on Earth. The average annual cost of operating the Russian segment of the ISS, taking into account the creation of launch vehicles and launches, is about 35 billion rubles.
Interfax: Will the funding of the ISS increase due to the need to devote more time and money to maintain the station’s performance?
El’chaninov: The volume of work to maintain the plant’s performance in the total share of costs is certainly growing, but at the moment this does not affect the growth of the total cost of operating the Russian segment, since it is balanced by optimization measures for other types of costs.
Interfax: How do the enterprises of the industry fulfill the tasks of diversifying production? What is the share of civilian products at the enterprises of the state corporation?
El’chaninov: We have made very good progress in the fuel and energy complex, medicine and transport. More than 35 Roskosmos enterprises are involved in the implementation of production diversification projects. The share of output of civilian products in the total output of enterprises of the state corporation in 2022 is 21.9%.
In particular, in the interests of the fuel and energy complex of Russia, MIT Corporation is developing the first domestic hydraulic fracturing fleet. The current stage is bench and field tests, the planned entry into serial production is from 2024.
Enterprises Turbonasos, NPO Iskra, Corporation VNIIEM, KBKhA, UKVZ serially produce oil and gas products – pumping equipment, gas pumping units, downhole equipment, Christmas trees and string heads, shut-off and control valves and so on.
Interfax: How is the work in terms of the production of medical equipment going?
El’chaninov: The Khrunichev Center produces medical pressure chambers for treatment by hyperbaric oxygenation, ISS Reshetnev – a mobile radiotherapy complex for the treatment of oncological diseases. Also, at the enterprises of Roskosmos, incubators for newborns and ventilators are being created.
Interfax: What about transport and industry?
El’chaninov: Now the key project of NPO Avtomatiki is a radar for use in ADAS driver assistance systems, as well as automatic control systems for agricultural machinery, projects at the stage of readiness for serial production. The MIT Corporation and the Keldysh Center are jointly developing water treatment complexes for desalination and the production of technical, drinking and extra pure water.
It is also worth mentioning the Ust-Katav Carriage Works – the enterprise has manufactured a prototype of the elevator, at the moment the production facilities are completely ready, the completion of the enterprise with an order is being worked out.
Interfax: Has the number of Roskosmos personnel been optimized in 2022? How many positions have been cut?
El’chaninov: I do not consider the current structure of the state corporation to be optimal and appropriate for the tasks being solved, it will continue to be refined. The number of Roskosmos employees in 2022 was reduced from 673 to 610 staff positions. As part of optimization measures, the staff of the organization was reduced by 63 personnel.
Interfax: What is the total number of employees in the rocket and space industry now?
El’chaninov: As of December 31, 2022, the total number of employees in the rocket and space industry amounted to 170.5 thousand people.
Interviewed by Alexander Belov and Artem Rukavov, Interfax News Agency
Linked from RuSpace news