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Oleg Kononenko interviews

International experiments on the ISS continue

Oleg Kononenko has been the head of the Russian cosmonaut team since 2016. Now he is preparing for his fifth flight. He spoke about the upcoming work on the ISS, new experiments and spacewalks in an interview with RIA Novosti.

RIAN: Oleg Dmitrievich, you are already preparing for a fifth space flight. Tell us what has changed for you in this process, and what has remained unchanged?

Kononenko: The basic training of a cosmonaut for space flight does not change dramatically. But the ships on which we fly are being upgraded. I completed four space flights, and each time on the Soyuz there was a new modification, and this is new equipment, new instruments. The program that I will carry out on board the ISS is changing. The range of scientific experiments is expanding. You have to study, listen to lectures of developers, scientists, take tests and exams for them. That is, the training does not change dramatically, but each next one does not repeat the previous one.

RIAN: What instruments will be installed on your Soyuz MS for the first time?

Kononenko: The Soyuz MS has a new central computer, improved exchange between the digital computer and the onboard systems of the ship, a new layout of the berthing and orientation engines so that it is possible to carry out the flight program in the event of any engine failure. Satellite navigation equipment has been introduced into the structure, due to which it is possible to quickly measure the orbit and position the ship relative to the ISS without the participation of the Mission Control Center (TsUP).

On the previous flight, for the first time, I had Wi-fi on Soyuz MS ships. At that time, new software was tested for transmitting data from a digital computer to a cosmonaut’s tablet via wireless communication. All this, together with the Soyuz-2.1a launch vehicle, made it possible to achieve rendezvous to the ISS in just two orbits.

The Soyuz MS-24 spacecraft has implemented a new output, «Выведение», Vyvedenie format to inform the crew about the missile flight segments, the Kurs equipment operation logic has been improved for the docking nodes of the new modules of the Russian segment, and there are also new, more ergonomic holders for the ship control knobs.

RIAN: Roskosmos announced the launch date for your crew – September 15th. Prior to this, various information was published, including the possibility of flying in June or July. Were such options really considered, why, and why was September chosen after all?

Kononenko: Various dates and even various options for crew compositions were considered. There was a moment when it was discussed that the Soyuz MS-23 would fly to the ISS not in unmanned mode, but with one cosmonaut – with me. To this end, the Cosmonaut Training Center developed a program for experimental testing of flight operations by one professional cosmonaut. As a result, such a possibility was indicated that, under certain conditions, an cosmonaut can fly alone.

I performed flight operations related to depressurization and fire under excess pressure in a spacesuit (0.4 kgf/cm2) to simulate work in a depressurized descent vehicle. The TsPK specialists do not remember that such training was conducted with such a duration of being under overpressure in a spacesuit. It is not easy to work in it. During normal training, we only simulate pressure in the spacesuit, as a rule it is no more than 0.02-0.03 kgf/cm2.

If I had flown alone, there would not have been a rescue ship for me on board the ISS. This is a very serious situation. Therefore, it was decided not to send one cosmonaut.

In the course of searching for the reasons for the depressurization of the radiators of the external cooling circuit of the Soyuz MS-22 and the Progress MS-21 cargo ship, points of view also changed on the date of launch. In the end, a decision was made: if a new ship is already launched, it must work out its resource. The expedition, which my crew will change, will remain for an additional six months.

RIAN: The traditional question about the upcoming flight. What indicator of weightlessness will you have?

Kononenko: I have never taken an indicator of weightlessness myself. On the second flight, the young children of an cosmonaut from the Netherlands, André Kuipers, were chosen. In the third flight – the children of the American colleague Chell Lindgren. On the fourth flight, the children of David Saint-Jacques and the children of Ann McClain.

RIAN: Will you change this tradition?

Kononenko: I don’t think so, but who knows. It is, of course, a tradition to have a weightlessness indicator, but the cosmonaut will always determine when the ship normally separated from the third stage of the launch vehicle. And you realize that you are already in orbit in zero gravity.

RIAN: What are the most interesting of those experiments that you have to conduct, can you highlight?

Kononenko: I have now moved from Expedition 69 to Expedition 70. Let’s see what experiments there will be, because part of my program will be carried out by the crew remaining on the ISS.

Of the experiments that I did before, I remember the third flight of the joint experiment of the Central Research Institute of the RTK and the German Institute of Mechatronics in Munich "Kontur-2". I assembled a circuit on board the station and controlled ground robots using space communication channels and ground telematic networks. One robot was in St. Petersburg, the second in Munich.

On the fourth flight, I performed the Magnetic 3D Bioprinter experiment. Russia was the first in the world to print bio-organs – tissue-engineered structures of human cartilaginous tissue and rat thyroid gland in weightlessness. Bioprinting technology allows the creation of radiation-sensitive organs-sentinels to study radiation exposure. This knowledge will be required when performing long-range flights, when planning the construction of lunar bases and the creation of planetary settlements.

On the next flight, I will have experiments of the same level. For example, “Fullerene,” during which we will grow unique perfect fullerene crystals from the gas phase in zero gravity using an electric vacuum furnace. Fullerites are the third crystalline form of carbon. Obtained in microgravity, they should have better structure and properties than their terrestrial counterparts.

Another experiment is “Quail,” during which the possibility of a sustainable existence of the Japanese quail bird population in microgravity conditions will be explored. I also note the study “Orbita-MG.” It is aimed at creating an innovative system for monitoring the technical condition of the shells of the ISS modules in order to find cracks in the body (from a meteorite impact, fatigue processes, degradation of structural materials), and also to establish the fact of the formation of a leak (through crack). In addition, a set of non-destructive testing technologies will make it possible to control the detected leaks.

In addition, outside the station, we will monitor the cosmic corrosion of its external surfaces in the Kvarts-M experiment. We will also install equipment on the MIM-2 module for testing the technology of deploying and fixing the shape of space structures made of polymer composite materials with a shape memory effect. This will be the “Perspective-KM” experiment.

RIAN: You mentioned a joint experiment with a German institute. What is the current situation with similar joint experiments?

Kononenko: The experiments are still going on. In terms of publishing the results on Earth, as I understand it, there are some difficulties. I was trained to do four to five experiments by NASA, and three to four experiments by ESA. So far no one has filmed these experiments with me, I am still ready to perform them. Therefore, I have not yet felt such alienation between our space agencies in terms of carrying out experiments. These will be experiments that I have already done.

RIAN: Do you have any planned spacewalks?

Kononenko: With exits, of course, a separate issue. They constantly “float” according to dates. I have two spacewalks scheduled for the end of the year.

In the first output of the task of the final retrofitting of the Multifunctional Laboratory Module (MLM) and the installation of new scientific equipment. In December, in the second exit, it will be necessary to take out and install the target scientific equipment on the outside of the Russian segment, as well as launch a small satellite developed by students of the Bauman Moscow State Technical University. The experiment is called “Sail-MSTU.” In free flight, this satellite will have to deploy a thin-film structure of reflective solar sail blades.

Depending on how Sergei Prokopiev and Dmitry Petelin cope with their exits, our tasks will be adjusted.

RIAN: How many exits will Prokopiev and Petelin have?

Kononenko: Scheduled for five. The main task is to transfer the lock chamber and the radiation heat exchanger to the MLM. These operations require three outputs. Two transfer exits and one integration exit into the Russian segment.

RIAN: Earlier you said that you fly into space not to set records, but to work and fulfill the tasks assigned to you. However, it will still turn out that after the upcoming flight you will become the person who, among all earthlings, spent the most time in space. How would you comment on this?

Kononenko: I love my job. I was not mistaken in choosing a profession – since childhood I dreamed of becoming an cosmonaut. This is first. Secondly, from my point of view, space is not an arena for sports, who is faster, higher and further. Well, and thirdly, since the question about the record is so often asked, then I will answer: that’s what they are, records to beat.

RIAN: When does the new selection for the cosmonaut corps start?

Kononenko: It is planned to announce the start of a new recruitment this year and complete it at the end of the year. As a result, up to six future cosmonauts are expected to be selected.

RIAN: Any special requirements this time?

Kononenko: No. Each time a requirement is discussed that the set should include at least half of the girls. But, unfortunately, only guys.

RIAN: When will the four candidates who were selected in 2021 receive the status of cosmonaut?

Kononenko: According to the plan, they have the end of general space training in May-June. Next, passing the state exams, in case of their successful passing, the candidates will receive the qualification of a test cosmonaut.

RIAN: In 2021-2023, several cosmonauts left the detachment, having made more than two flights. Now there are practically no experienced cosmonauts in it. Can this be called a trend, and is it worth worrying about?

Kononenko: It cannot be called a trend, because of those whom you have listed, only one cosmonaut, on his own initiative, decided to stop his activities. Everyone else is for medical reasons.

Space flights do not add health. In the detachment, people are purposeful, loving their profession. We have criteria for limiting selection, one of them is age, not older than 35 years, but the right age limit is only desire and health.

Today, the cosmonaut corps is a good fusion of youth and experience. At the same time, there is no big difference in age between the cosmonauts of the detachment. We are people of the same generation, perfectly understanding each other and striving for the same goals.

RIAN: You remain the most experienced, both in terms of age and number of flights, and in terms of time spent in the detachment. How long do you plan to stay in it and lead it?

Kononenko: Good question. It all depends on medicine, that is, on my health. Unfortunately, it has so happened in the last 20 years that cosmonauts fly on their first flight on 9-10-11, or even on the 12th year. Therefore, I am still hungry for flying. In addition, there are criteria for the selection of cosmonauts, but how to return to the profession of an cosmonaut who left the detachment (not for health reasons) is not provided for by the selection regulations.

RIAN: Roskosmos cosmonauts and NASA astronauts have signed an addendum to the contract, according to which Russian must be trained for the exit on the American segment of the station. Did this preparation take place, and who took part in it?

Kononenko: Preparations under the addition to the contract with NASA are already underway. We started with my crew. Nikolai Chub was trained on the SSRMS Space Station Remote Manipulator System, the arm-manipulator of the American segment of the station, I was trained for a spacewalk. We are certified in these activities, passed the exams and are fully prepared. Such training is carried out in case only the Soyuz crew is on board the ISS and there is a need to perform urgent tasks on the American segment of the ISS.

RIAN: Will the cosmonauts from the following crews also undergo such training?

Kononenko: NASA plans to have Russian cosmonauts undergo such training, starting with our crew, and at least until 2030, which is currently considered the year the ISS will end its operation.

RIAN: Has a department of special examinations been created at Roskosmos, which should have included all the cosmonauts of the detachment?

Kononenko: Yes, the department was created in 2021, I head it, all cosmonauts are in it as chief experts. Together with the leadership of the Roskosmos State Corporation, 15 enterprises have been identified that work in the field of manned cosmonautics. From two to three cosmonauts were included in the scientific and technical councils of these enterprises. They participate in discussions of projects, in the examination of technical specifications for the prospective manned space vehicles being created, in the preparation of materials, proposals and recommendations for meetings of the scientific and technical councils of the enterprises of the state corporation.

In particular, we are actively involved in the development of a new ROS station, a new ship, which is now called the Oryol, in the modernization of the Soyuz and means of survival in the event of an emergency landing. All this makes it possible to improve the quality and application orientation of solutions.

RIAN: Astronauts are used to getting by with a modest set of resources due to restrictions on the mass delivered to the ISS. And if you were put in even more cramped conditions and told to go to a desert island with three items, what would you take?

Kononenko: Believe me, we are not very limited on board, we have enough food, water, clothes, the Internet, modern means of communication, we can call home. I did not experience any significant material or psychological limitations. The internal volume of the ISS is two Boeing-747s. If you want to be alone, you can easily do it.

What would I take with me? To be honest, I don’t really need anything during my flights. But by the end of the expedition, I feel the need to stand in the shower or just under the naturally flowing stream of water.

RIAN: Since the volume of the station is like two Boeing-747s, there is no feeling at all that you are in a confined space?

Kononenko: I’m going there to work. I try to keep myself busy, and therefore I do not lose motivation until the end of the flight. It was on the first flight that we had three people, starting from the second, the crew was six or more. With cosmonauts from NASA and ESA, we begin training somewhere in one and a half to two years, we get to know each other quite close during this time. Therefore, there is someone to talk to, something to talk about. That’s how we live.

Interviewed by Denis Kayyran, RIA Novosti, 11/4/2023

4/2/2024: “I fly into space to do what I love, not to set records”

The commander of the Roskosmos cosmonaut corps, TASS special correspondent at the International Space Station Oleg Kononenko, became the new world record holder for the total duration of space flights. The cosmonaut is currently on a year-long expedition aboard the ISS, the fifth flight of his career. In an interview with TASS, Kononenko spoke about his attitude to the new achievement and the secrets of professional longevity, the main disadvantages of the ISS and his vision of the promising Russian orbital station.

TASS: Oleg Dmitrievich, have you dreamed of breaking the record that Gennady Padalka has held since 2015, or do you take such things calmly?

Kononenko: I fly into space to do what I love, not to set records. Cosmonaut is a profession that I have dreamed of, been interested in and aspired to since childhood. It is this interest, the opportunity to fly into space, live and work in orbit that motivates me to continue flying. I am proud of all my achievements, but I am more proud that the record for the total duration of a person’s stay in space is still held by a Russian cosmonaut.

TASS: Do you feel on a physical or any other level that you have spent so much time in your life, over 800 days already, in orbit?

Kononenko: While on Earth, I don’t feel any subjective changes, either mentally or physically. The attitude towards the Earth and people remains the same. Flights into space, of course, do not improve my health, but I always lead an active lifestyle and regularly exercise both on Earth and in space. Naturally, immediately after returning to Earth, during the first days, during the period of acute rehabilitation, physical discomfort is felt. Weightlessness is insidious: in it you have complete control of your body, but if, while in flight, you do not train, do not physically prepare yourself for Earthly conditions, then after returning the body will have a more difficult time adapting to gravity and it will take much more time to restore normal physical activity. Crew doctors provide great support in health matters to cosmonauts, who work with us at all stages of preparation and execution of the flight, as well as in the post-flight period.

And from a psychological point of view, during the period of work in orbit, I do not feel any deprivation or isolation. Only upon returning home does the realization come that for hundreds of days of my absence, the children grew up without a dad. Nobody will give me back this time, which is very frustrating.

TASS: This is already your fifth flight into space. What has changed in the preparation process, as well as on the station itself, since your first time in space, and what has remained the same?

Kononenko: The main paradox is that with each subsequent flight, preparing for it does not become easier. The ISS is being replenished with new modules, the ship is constantly being modernized, new design and layout elements, improved systems, hardware and software are appearing. All this, of course, requires additional study. New disciplines and new exams appear in the training program. Each flight is a new configuration of the ISS. In particular, two new modules have now been added to the Russian segment of the ISS: the MLM (multifunctional laboratory module) and the node module, which were not in orbit during my previous flight.

In addition, from flight to flight the level of scientific experiments becomes more complex, new, quite interesting and science-intensive experiments appear in the program, more modern equipment for scientific research is developed and delivered. However, the friendly atmosphere, mutual support and understanding between all crew members remain unchanged at the station.

TASS: How have advances simplified the lives of modern cosmonauts compared to the beginning of your career?

Kononenko: The opportunity to use IP telephony was, of course, before, but for this, the families of cosmonauts had to come to the Mission Control Center on certain days and at the appointed time. Now, if we have free time and satellite communications, we can organize video calls, call, and communicate with our relatives every day. Our relatives can also use any device: computer, smartphone, tablet. Text messages, photos, videos – all this is available to us today.

In addition, the communication system in the Russian segment was modernized. If earlier we took a hard drive with us to transfer large amounts of information to Earth, now it is possible to dump data arrays in real time using modern communications. The computer network and software on board the ISS are being updated. On my second flight I started using a tablet for the first time, and now we use these tablets all the time. They made the work of cosmonauts much easier. It became possible to use on-board documentation and radiograms in electronic form. We receive training animations and videos from technical specialists in order to understand in more detail how to work with the systems. The speed of the Internet on the ISS has increased, and it has become possible to independently search and watch movies on board without involving the same MCC. The Soyuz has been very seriously updated, in particular its on-board navigation system: now we get to the ISS in two orbits – almost within three hours.

TASS: Does all this mean that modern cosmonauts have something much easier and more enjoyable than their predecessors, or has the profession, on the contrary, become more complicated?

Kononenko: The profession of an cosmonaut is becoming more complicated. Systems and experiments are becoming more complex. I repeat, preparation has not become any easier.

TASS: During the current expedition, you are performing a number of experiments. In particular, the Quail experiment was successfully completed in December. Which experiments could you highlight in particular, which are of the greatest scientific interest and complexity?

Kononenko: Now in the European module Columbus, on new modern equipment we are continuing the research that I conducted back in the first expedition: “Plasma Crystal,” an experiment to study the process of formation of ordered structures of charged particles.

Another interesting experiment is “EarthCAM”; this is high-resolution photography of areas of the Earth’s surface from the ISS. The experiment is carried out at the request of schoolchildren, students, and educational institutions from all over the world.

Also on the third flight, I participated in the joint Russian-German experiment “Kontur-2” to control ground robots from space. Using a joystick located on board the ISS, I controlled the robot, which was on Earth, and upon reaching some obstacle, I felt a force on the handle.

A complex, unique and important experiment from the point of view of the development of medicine is an experiment on growing living tissues in space. During the first session of the experiment, which I performed in December 2018 on the fourth flight, a three-dimensional tissue-engineered construct of a mouse thyroid gland and human cartilage tissue was obtained. As already noted, the study has undeniable scientific significance: such an experiment was carried out in space for the first time. This flight will be an experiment using more advanced 4D bioprinting technology, in which we hope to produce tubular organ equivalents. I will be conducting this experiment in March.

TASS: I read that few cosmonauts retain a personal goal and desire to continue flying in principle after several flights. How, after so many years, did you manage to remain, as you call it, “hungry” before flying into space?

Kononenko: I’ll speak for myself. Cosmonautics accumulates knowledge from a variety of branches of science and technology. An cosmonaut is a profession where you need to constantly study and keep yourself in good intellectual and physical shape. And for me this is very important. I like to be in good shape, to be active, to be at the peak of knowledge and up to date with the latest achievements, and to constantly expand my horizons. And of course, once experienced the feeling of weightlessness gives an additional incentive and charges with the desire to repeat the experience of space flight.

For me personally, conducting scientific experiments in orbit has always been of great interest. Because it gives some special feeling of involvement in the research that scientists are conducting on Earth and the results of which humanity will use to solve important issues.

TASS: Is there a possibility that a sixth flight into space will occur in your career? Will you strive for this?

Kononenko: Future will tell. I don’t like to make guesses; I prefer to talk about the results that exist today. I will strive to continue to do my job professionally and with pleasure.

TASS: You started your career in Samara as an engineer at the Central Specialized Design Bureau, where you designed power supply systems for spacecraft. What was the turning point when you made the final decision to retrain from a spacecraft design engineer to a test cosmonaut?

Kononenko: There was no turning point. I made the decision to become an cosmonaut long before entering college. I dreamed about this since childhood.

At that time, candidates for the cosmonaut corps were selected either from among military pilots or from among engineering and technical personnel. I entered the engineering specialty and after graduating from the institute, I purposefully came to Samara and got a job at the Central Specialized Design Bureau as an engineer for the design of spacecraft power supply systems in order to gain experience in my specialty and begin a career path towards my ultimate goal and dream. When I realized that I had become comfortable and successful in this position, I decided to move on.

TASS: It is known that cosmonauts are actively involved in the development of the promising Russian orbital station, as well as a new transport ship, which is now called PTK. Could you share your personal vision of what they should be?

Kononenko: A promising Russian orbital station should not only be structurally and technologically modern, but also convenient for use by cosmonauts, ergonomic for living and working. Therefore, I expect that target modules will be designed and created for specific tasks of cosmonauts. For example, a household module where cosmonauts sleep, eat, spend free time, etc. A separate module for physical education, a module for scientific research, and an observation module for photography are also needed – an analogue of the “Cupola” on the American segment of the ISS. We must learn to live and work in space in comfort and build a real space home, and not just a place for temporary stay.

The same applies to the new manned spacecraft. In general, a working group of specialists from RKK Energiya and the Cosmonaut Training Center has been created on issues of ergonomics and layout of the manned command compartment of a new generation ship. All comments and suggestions, I hope, are taken into account during the design. At the same time, the ship must remain a reliable means of delivery to the space station, which is the Soyuz.

TASS: You spent a huge amount of time on the ISS, you know the station like the back of your hand. What are the main disadvantages and problematic issues of this station that should be taken into account when creating the ROS?

Kononenko: The most problematic point, in my opinion, is the multifunctionality of the service module of the Russian segment of the ISS. In one module we do everything: exercise, eat, use the toilet, perform some technical work, take photographs and conduct research. There are also cabins for sleeping and relaxing. To ensure the comfort of cosmonauts, specialized modules must be created for specific needs and tasks. The future station should also be more self-sufficient and less dependent on the Earth, as the ISS is now. That is, she could provide for herself on her own. This will require modification and improvement of existing water regeneration systems, oxygen supply, development of equipment for waste disposal and production of spare parts at the station itself for repair and maintenance work.

TASS: Your command cabin at the station has a view of Earth. Is it possible to get used to contemplating this splendor?

Kononenko: Of course, you can’t get used to it. It’s great that the designers included a porthole in the cabin. By the way, there are no portholes in the American cabins. The Earth is what I always admire before going to bed, and the first thing I see when I wake up in the morning. The beauty is incredible. I always say that it is impossible to photograph the Earth as you see it with your eyes. Therefore, I try to enjoy the views of the globe every day while I am in flight.

TASS: The profession of an cosmonaut involves frequent long-term separations from loved ones. How do your relatives – your wife Tatyana and children, Andrei and Alisa – feel about this?

Kononenko: My family, of course, always support me in everything. They understand that I really love my profession and it is important for me to realize myself in business. Alisa and Andrey are now 3rd year students. Andrey chose a technical specialty, Alice is interested in the humanities. Personally, for me and my wife, the most important thing is that the children ultimately choose their favorite profession and are happy.

TASS: Do your spouse and children always see you off and greet you after flights?

Kononenko: Always. Except for the first flight in 2008. I didn’t take my relatives to Baikonur; they were at the control center. The children were four years old. Now it’s a family tradition to see off and meet dad from space.

Linked from Cosmonaut Group